Equity Guide for Nonprofit Tech with Tristan Penn pt 2

Why a 2025 technology equity guide for nonprofits? 

Part 1 covers introductions and a deep discussion on the issues of equity in the technology your nonprofit staff use and how they use it. Part 2 delves into questions of funding tech at nonprofits and touches on creating technology tools and applications that can disrupt inequity in our communities, finishing with Q&A.

Nonprofit technology is marked by inequities within our organizations and our sector.  You can see this in staffing and processes, and the way technology tools are implemented. Learn to use the free NTEN Equity Guide for Nonprofit Technology as an active and regular part of your strategy discussions and policy review processes and as a resource for evaluation.

Join Tristan Penn to learn how nonprofit staff can use technology strategically in racially equitable ways to meet our missions and community needs.

Worried about inherent bias and inequity built in to the technology your nonprofit uses?
Wondering how to implement strategies and frameworks to make sure your technology use aligns with your organizational values? 

Navigating technology can be challenging for nonprofits, especially with the inequities in our sector. How can you use technology as strategically and equitably as possible to advance your mission?

 This session will explore how to use the NTEN Equity Guide as a key part of your strategy and policy reviews. You’ll learn how to implement technology in racially equitable ways to better meet community needs. Get a head start on building a more equitable tech future for your organization.

Presenter:

Tristan Penn is the Equity and Accountability Director at NTEN, where he works to promote, coordinate, and evaluate best practices that support Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, Accessibility, and Liberation. His work focuses on equitable development and capacity building within the nonprofit sector. He manages a staff, community, and board-specific DEI Taskforce, creating long-term work plans and goals for equity initiatives both within NTEN and across the broader community.

In his role, Tristan supports and coaches conference speakers and course faculty on creating equitable presentations and manages an annual community survey to gather demographic data and assess customer satisfaction and goal alignment. He is also responsible for designing and implementing audit processes to evaluate the staff, board, and volunteer policies outlined in NTEN’s Equity Commitment, and for developing appropriate methodologies to measure the impact of NTEN’s equity efforts.

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Thanks for listening.

Transcript

Carolyn Woodard: I want to welcome everyone to the Community IT Webinar Equity Guide for Nonprofit Tech. My name is Carolyn Woodard. I’m the Outreach Director for Community IT and the moderator today.

Tristan Penn: Hi, my name is Tristan Penn.

Okay, so let’s talk about funding really quick too. I eluded to it a bit with those grants that were like, oh, we need the money and then now we don’t know how to implement it. We’ve painted ourselves into this corner. I think a few things if you are in conversation and partnership with any philanthropic organization, a foundation, these are good guidelines to have in your back pocket to ask of if you have not only like a grantee funder relationship, but like an outside like, hey, we work in the same community. 

I’m very familiar with you all and we run into each other online or offline. And I happen to get wind of more opportunities for funding, or I’m a part of a community team to inform how they’re going to fund. That’s oftentimes we get those like asks, right? So investing appropriately in technology, and that means being more as a funder, being more succinct and clear, and giving depth to technology in whatever funding you’re giving out, and not just it being like technology, 30 percent, 10K, that’s it. How are we supposed to tease that out? You know, providing and suggesting to funders that there needs to be much more explanation, and also in that potential grant, being able to line out how this grant is also going to fund the contingency that we talked about, the technology strategic plan, or the long-term security of these tools that we’re going to have to buy to implement this work program tool. 

So thinking about that, when you have access to those funders is important. I think also just personally and like organization-wide of investing in whatever technology you’re folding in and doing it, again, same way, following that strategic plan that you have is like, is it, you know, is it timely? Are we doing this because my mom used to tell me this, you know, when we were out shopping, I’d like roll up to the cart with like a toy and she’s like, is this a want or a need? And it’s like, you know, it’s always just a want. So really asking yourself that, you know, organizationally, what is this a want? Because we’re like feeling the pressure that there is no pressure, you know, because it’s shiny and new. Or is this something we actually do need that would enhance our work, our impact and our mission? 

I think also, you know, a few other things in terms of funding are support, experimentation and failure. And that is specifically the failure piece when oftentimes I consult with other organizations, when they bring me in to be like, we’re doing this project management piece, we need some like, you know, structure and like guidance on how to like change into it, to offer insight on like decision making and like project planning. 

Oftentimes, I’ll tell them, where are you folding in failure? Where are you folding in failure into your work? And I know that’s harsh on a lot of people’s ears. But one thing I will offer is that what program or project that you have ever done hasn’t had a hiccup, hasn’t had failure. And if you are expecting perfection across the board, you will disappoint yourself. Fold in failure into your work and your implementation and into your whatever tool that you’re funding. And make sure that not only is it folded in and expected, because it will happen, we’re human, that’s what happens.

But also that there’s no punitive strings attached to any failure or a specific person that it is. It just didn’t work out. We knew there was going to be some barriers and hiccups that we were unaware of. And being okay with that and releasing people from this like, oh my gosh, we failed, I’m going to get a horrible write up. I’m, you know, that can make people show up in a better way when you fold in failure and it’s expected into whatever thing, you know, tool that you’re funding. So that is funding, corporate funding. Don’t conflate produce donation with cash funding or product donation. Excuse me, don’t conflate it. 

Saying No to Funders

So back to the iPads in the closet, product donating, if they’re donating that closet full iPads, that’s not the same as a cash donation. And also, if it’s just a straight up donation, there needs, you know, it’s hard to say no to donations as a nonprofit. But also this is where the rubber hits the road of, we thank you for this donation of whatever tech that you’re providing. But we don’t accept tech without any sort of safety contingency that’s folded in to that work. It’s what we talked about earlier, too. 

Creating the contingency of whatever tech or practice or training is going to be involved. So if they’re not willing to provide, like, a staff person, like 10 hours of their, you know, their month to check in, to make sure that things are updated, not only in the training and professional development, but the tool itself, then we can’t, like, in good conscience and in good faith, implement this tool that you’re generously giving us. We just can’t. It’s not possible. Giving for impact and not visibility. 

I love Boys and Girls Club, but, you know, a lot of times it’s where I really learned, took some licks and really learned some hard lessons. And this is one of them where you’re showing, you’re at the club and kids are, you know, everywhere and then, like, a bunch of suits walks in. A suit walks in with the executive director or CEO, and you make eye contact with the CEO and they’re like, this is so-and-so from Columbia Bank. This is so-and-so from Sunflower Bank, and they’re the president. And they wanted to donate stuff, and they showed up today, and so I brought them here so they could volunteer with some kids. 

And now you’re like, OK, this is for visibility because there’s cameras everywhere. The comms person’s there all of a sudden, who’s never been in the club. But I say that because that felt not good. That felt not good as a staff member, and that shouldn’t feel good to any of those staff members that walked in with those suits. But oftentimes, where we have the blinders on of it’s money, and it’s donated, and we can’t take no for an answer, or we can’t say no. And so oftentimes, you put staff in unsavory positions because you want it to be visible, but there’s no preparation or forethought with it. 

So being able to have your boundaries when you’re interacting with corporate entities is super important when you’re creating that technology strategic plan. 

Creating Technology

This is the last section, and so we have about four minutes, so I’m going to try and breeze through this because I want to create time for Q&A, and we’re going to roll into creating technology. 

So this is more so if you are interacting with a salesperson or anyone, or you’re creating your own, there are some pieces with that. But if you have an opportunity to be a part of advising, oh, we’re creating this tool for nonprofits, perfect. I have some opinions. I have many. Making sure that you’re following ethical sales guidelines and prioritizing community outcomes and using, more importantly, I love the phrase community outcomes here, because oftentimes the tell is people are like, oh, we have this tool that’s specific for nonprofit work. And they use very corporate jargon that I’ve never heard nonprofit people use. 

I always use community members. And so a lot of times they’ll say, you’re clients. And so when they say clients, I’m thinking, how informed are you in creating this tool? Prioritizing those community outcomes for any of those tools that are trying to get sold to you and investigating the price of it as it relates to you and your nonprofit – is the price equitable? Is it scaled to your budget? Do they have a sliding scale where if your budget’s from 500K to 1 million, here’s what we’re offering? And also it’s the same product. It’s not changed as it goes up with your budget. Oftentimes, that happens. 

I think another piece of the sales and marketing piece, as you’re getting like sold all of these like flashy new tools, is making sure that if you are getting offered, like some sort of steep discount or pro bono add-on of like, you know, because you’re a nonprofit, we’re going to do this, making sure that the terms of that match your own technology strategic plan and being like, well, you said the terms were like only for six months, but actually, according to us, we and our like guidelines and policy, we need you to provide that training and like constant like security update, like for two years in. And in stating that and naming that, and oftentimes that’s when the deal falls through or whatever. 

And so that’s what I mean, you know, I find that at the bottom of this list, being intentional with pro bono services is, as my grandpa always used to say, there’s no such thing as a free lunch. If it’s free, there should be some like deep and steep questioning about what is getting offered and from the people who are like cutting the deal. So a few things on like the creating piece. And let’s see here. 

We talked about embracing non-profit diversity. That was at the beginning of the presentation. But I think one thing that does stick out to me in implementing any of these like creative technology, creating technology for the sector or for your community is oftentimes it feels as though when you’ve created something, we need to keep it here. We need to keep it within the organizational walls. No one can have it. We have a competitor across town that we can’t share that with. I think that feast or famine type of mentality of that very guarded, this is our stuff and we don’t want big brothers or big sisters to get a hold of this, is so detrimental to the sector.

Oftentimes, all it takes is you being like, I think this other organization that does very similar work to us could benefit from this. I just want our community to thrive and I don’t really particularly care what organization they’re doing it with. I think having that like spirit of camaraderie, community is important and it’s oftentimes it gets lost in specific places. Being able to, if you have something that you’ve created, sharing it with similar organizations across the country, or across your community is important. I think lastly, and then I’ll stop and we’ll go into Q&A, is treating projects as ongoing processes. 

So similar to folding in failure, but also treating a project as an ongoing process and it doesn’t really have an end. So what is the one year after we’ve launched? What is the one year checkup? What is the one and a half year checkup? Is there an immediate checkup that we need to do? And what is the process for continually checking in on those things?

Will serve you better as opposed to just leaving it, you know, we implemented it and like fingers crossed, I hope it goes well. Like that’s something that I think, you know, I’ve been a part of and, you know, as a lesson learned, I was like, I didn’t check in on this and it’s been a year and this is falling completely apart. And that’s, you know, failure that I own. I was in my 20s, but like also like, you know, that’s something that like is super important. And it provides a lot of like growth for yourself, but also like it’s important because it impacts the communities that you serve. 

Q&A With Tristan Penn on Nonprofit Tech Equity

So I’m going to end here and I’m going to go into not the discussion, but I’m going to go into Q&A. Maybe I didn’t have a Q&A slide. I thought I did, Carolyn, but apparently I didn’t.

Carolyn Woodard: All right. Hope everybody can see that. If you do have questions, go ahead and get them in. While we have Tristan here, we can ask him. I have a quick question. Well, it’s kind of a quick, but maybe a big question. So I noticed in your presentation and your examples, a lot of the examples that you used included power dynamics and particularly power imbalances.

Tristan Penn: Yeah.

Carolyn Woodard: Right. So when you’re getting a pro bono donation or when the suits are walking in to your boys and girls club.

Tristan Penn: Yeah.

Carolyn Woodard: And you said, you feel like you can’t say no to those. And I feel like that is like a kernel of this equity question. So I wondered if you could talk a little bit more about, you gave us a lot of great examples of it happening that you’re in a power imbalance. Do you, through your work and through this equity guide, do you have advice for the people listening about, I want to say fighting that, but strategies to take on those situations where you are not in a position of power, and that is creating an inequity in the situation with technology?

Tristan Penn: That’s such a great question, and I do have an answer, multiple answers. And also, I just want to acknowledge that it’s harder for some people to have tough conversations, specifically when there’s a power dynamic involved, too. I am not one of those people. I’ve always been one of those, I would say, very social people that’s been like, this is wrong, and I don’t know why this is, regardless of who it is. And I feel like it’s become more honed as I’ve gotten older, and a bit more sweeter and respectful, but still firm. 

And I think that really, you know, it starts with you. And is that something that is within you to do? And I, you know, when I’m helping facilitate groups or like discussion where I’m not a staff member, I’m just there as a facilitator, oftentimes I have the opportunity to say, I want to name a power dynamic in this room. And that is that the C-suite is here, and all of the staff members who are experiencing this thing are here, and there may be folks who don’t feel comfortable. That is, you know, speaking their full truth. And I think it really does just start by naming that power dynamic, and that can like exist in like staff meetings, but it can also exist in, you know, maybe not, you know, in the moment. But also, like, I think it exists across a lot of different, like, you know, categories, too. 

Oftentimes, I was the only Black person working in an all-white organization. And so I, you know, I feel like at times, I didn’t really have the safety to say what I needed to say. And also, I think that encourages folks who are, you know, part of the majority who are white, you know, in that example, to be able to speak up, because there’s a lot more, there’s a lot less at risk for them, too. And I think that’s something that, like, folks have to be comfortably uncomfortable with, with speaking up and naming power dynamics, because that’s the whole point of, like, a hierarchy, is to, like, not name the hierarchy, but for it to be heavily implied. And so I think that that really is, you know, being able to, like, name it is important. 

But I also want to just, like, call out, if you are part of, like, a marginalized community and you’re, like, one of one in whatever organization you’re in, being able to, like, I tell people this, specifically folks of color that are, you know, the only person in their, like, white nonprofit, it’s like, if you continually are running into this mental calculus, it’s not worth it. Get out. You don’t have to speak up in these meetings. And I know that’s a luxury to be like, I’m leaving, I’m quitting or whatever, or I’m shifting to another organization. But also long term, I’ve been there where it weighs on you and it’s much more taxing to continue to stay in an organization where you are running into both organizational issues, but also just for yourself, the anxiety that comes with that too. 

And so I always quote this rap song, it’s called No Role Models, but it’s like, don’t save them. They don’t want to be saved. And so I think you have to do that calculus of like, is the juice worth the squeeze for me bringing it up? Happy to, but if this is going to fall on ears that aren’t listening, then I’m not going to do it. I’m not going to name that power dynamic. It’s not worth it. 

So I think it’s like a both and of like, yes, name it. But also that calculus of risk for folks who are marginalized is much higher. That job may be on the line for them as opposed to like one of their white colleagues doing it. Or like if it’s for a queer person, it’s like that calculus and like that risk may be higher for them than like a cis-hetero-person. And so I think there’s a lot of dynamics that inform how you name a power dynamic or don’t name it.

Carolyn Woodard: Yeah. Yeah. You might not have the job, you might not get the grant, you might not have the donor. But I really, that stood out to me of what you were talking about, maybe more to think about. 

And the other thing that I think you said a couple of times was the learning piece. And nonprofits are learning organizations for the most part, but sometimes we can get so busy with what we’re doing, that we don’t spend that time on making sure everyone knows how to use the technology, everybody’s onboarded correctly. But also maybe there are some learning opportunities as well around equity and power and being able to name what’s happening and around the technology as well. Sorry, I’m going to have to go quickly.

Tristan Penn: No, that’s fine.

Carolyn Woodard: But I could talk to you all day basically. I want to go quick over our learning objectives, which I think you hit on. And definitely, if you, if the people will download this Equity Guide, you crunched tons of information into this tiny little presentation. So I definitely recommend people to go look at the full thing. 

But we wanted to understand equity issues impacting nonprofits and technology. Learn how funding equitable nonprofit technology ensures better outcomes. Like you said, have that strategic plan, be able to go to your funder with this strategic plan and be able to identify why getting a short-term something or a donated something doesn’t fit with what makes sense for your organization. Discuss the role of nonprofit technology in disrupting existing inequitable models and learn the role of your board in tech equity. We didn’t quite get to that one, but there’s a whole other report, PDF, that you can get with some questions for your board members to talk about technology and equity. So that will help people. 

I know we’re almost at time, so I’m trying to be respectful of the people who have joined us, but I do want to invite you back to our first webinar of 2026, which will be January 21st, from 3 to 4 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific, on Zoom. This is our annual Nonprofit Tech Roundtable. We have our experts from Community IT. Having your smart friends who know a lot about technology and a lot about nonprofits, and you can sit around. They’re going to tell us what the trends were, what they’re expecting trends to be, and you can ask them your questions. So it’s a great opportunity and experience, and it’s very popular every year. So I’m always excited to moderate it. 

And this year, we are adding in our Director of Client Services, Jenny Huftalen, and she is just amazing. She has this wealth of experience talking to thousands of our clients over the years about what they’re worried about, what’s happening, what they’re seeing, what they’re doing, what they’re preparing for. So I’m really looking forward to that. I’m going to drop the link in there, but you can also find it on our site at communityit.com.

It’s Wednesday, January 21st at 3 p.m. And of course, you can sign up for any other webinars there, and there’s lots of free resources as well. 

You can join us on Reddit in just a minute. I’m sharing that as well. It’s r/nonprofititmanagement. 

And I just want to thank you, Tristan, so much for your time. You know, an hour of anyone’s time is a gift, and we appreciate you giving us the benefit of your experience, walking us through the concerns that are in this Equity Guide. And I hope too, I hope our audience can use it, and I just want to thank you for joining us today.

Tristan Penn: Well, thank you very much. I appreciate being here and happy to talk about, you know, everything under the sun as it relates to tech. I’m so happy to like be in dialogue with you, Carolyn. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Carolyn Woodard: Thank you. And I was saying, I know you have a whole other presentation on AI.

Tristan Penn: Yes.

Carolyn Woodard: And I would love to have you back in 2026, and we’ll talk about all of the equity and power dynamics and security and trust issues with AI, all of the AI tools. So I look forward to that as well. Thank you, everyone who joined us in the audience. Thank you those who are listening on the podcast, seeing us on YouTube. And we will see you in January 2026. Thank you, Tristan.

Tristan Penn: Thank you.